Printing the 3DPCB

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    • #1581
      JayWms
      Participant

      I commented earlier today about the print being fun to watch the first layer… It still is, but I am having issues on layer 2-3 with all the small little spots. I keep losing 1 or 2. I know this is a adhesion issue but I’ve never had any issues like this before… I’ve tried it on 2 of my printers and each gets to layer 4 and something sticks to the nozzle after it is printed and it gets deposited elsewhere…

      I tried way too much hairspray and the glue stick, thinking of trying a raft? Do you have any tips?

      Layer 1 Example

    • #1585
      Johan von Konow
      Keymaster

      Strange, I have not had these issues on the printers that I have used (Prusa MK3s and BCN3D). I have also used quite a few different PLA filaments during development, and sliced both in cura and slic3r…
      Typically, I have used the following (normal) settings:
      • Bed temp 60-70 deg
      • Nozzle temp 205deg
      • 0.2mm layer height
      • No supports, no raft
      • Standard speed (recommended by the slicer)
      There are small spots beneath each switch that adds support and wire guide under the switch, guess it is them that is causing the trouble.

      Try to add support and see if that holds it in place. Usually the support is not placed inside the wire channels anyway.

    • #1586
      Johan von Konow
      Keymaster

      Hmm, I did a quick modification:
      The middle part under the keys is now connected to the first layer, reducing risk of faulty prints (maybe at the cost of less space for soldering)
      If you have the possibility, you can test if this works better:
      https://github.com/vonkonow/LEET-Synthesizer/commit/28c8f049693179fef57e8de33c2a18f861086949
      /j

    • #1587
      JayWms
      Participant

      Yes, I will test that print out today! Thanks for taking the time to adjust it. I managed to get one to print on a raft but it has other small issues from the air-gap layer, some little blobs, so not ideal.

      Any chance you have an amazon link to some wire? I’ve been checking all my scrap wire, not finding any .3mm strands. I’m sure I’ll find something. :)

      I am debating on designing a variation (not sure I have the patience for your superior 3DPCB routing) so I can use a dozen or so Arduino Uno/Leonardos I have from a previous project. I went ahead and ordered a few of the Arduinos you listed so I can try to build it as intended first though. These Unos have the pin out, just not sure if they are too large to try make a revision to the 3DPCB or just go ahead and make more of a case style version mount it inside.

      Arduino Uno/Leonardo

    • #1588
      Johan von Konow
      Keymaster

      Don’t focus too much on exact diameter. I like 0.3mm, but smaller or larger will do just fine. Try a piece of lamp, ethernet or speaker chord and see how it works.
      Redesign a version with standard Arduino interface should definitely be possible. Quickest way to test the boards is probably to solder two pin headers or sockets instead of the pro micro. Then you can use jumper cable to connect it temporarily to any board of choice.

    • #1602
      JayWms
      Participant

      Okay, sounds good… I’ll start testing some wire once I have a board to see what can fit. I started to print the revised board and it looks good so far…

      I also tweaked some settings, z-hop on retract, avoid printed parts. If the revised prints okay, I might try to print the original again with these settings.

    • #1631
      JayWms
      Participant

      I appreciate you taking the time to help me, I have never had this much issue with a print before. I just can’t seem to get past the first 6-8 layers to get a solid print. I rarely have issues like this, my calibration cubes are almost spot on 20mm.

      I have no doubt it is the slicer, but I have tried multiple versions of Cura (4.1, 4.7.1) and I just get strange travel or strange stringing/trailing issues on layer 1 that I don’t see when I run a string test or other printing tests.

      I am going to see if I can’t tune one of my printers this weekend and try again…

    • #1633
      JayWms
      Participant

      So, I saw you posted more boards so I decided to print the smaller one… I still have issues with all the small unattached sections. The slicer is confused on the first layer for sure.. I am re-printing the revised keyboard you sent me now, it failed yesterday but was a layer shift and not the same issue.

      When I look at Cura layer by layer, I can see the spots that start on layer 4 so they never get anchored to the build plate. I’m determined to get these!!

      Here are the pics of the smaller board for you to see. The underside shows where those little sections came unattached and were deposited elsewhere. Maybe I can run\view your GCODE file, I know it was likely on your Prusa but should run on my DIY or Ender3 or Ender 5 I’d think.

      Print Examples @ Imgur

      I’m sure support is not what you were looking for when you created this project, all of your help is appreciated.

      • #1636
        Johan von Konow
        Keymaster

        Hi Jay
        I have not had any problem with first layer (have printed both on glass bed and on PEI coated sheet).
        For the glass bed I usually use a thin layer of hairspray to ensure that part sticks, but the problem is usually the reverse. Have had parts that sticks so well to the glass that it chips…
        If I print PET in 150% speed, I have noticed that some parts don’t adhere correctly. You could test if slower print speed helps. (on first layer)

    • #1634
      Johan von Konow
      Keymaster

      Hi I just redesigned Keyboard, Chord & Pad with new 3D models that connects the loose parts to improve 3D printing quality (all on github)
      I appreciate the feedback and have no problem with support. By solving these issues, the product evolves and gets better!

    • #1637
      JayWms
      Participant

      Greetings!!  Can you check the upload for the LEET Pad?  The STL zip has an STP file in it I believe…  That model is smaller so I can print it on a mini 3D printer I have, I thought I would try that out…

      I have been printing these on an Ender3&5 in PLA.  60mm speed.  I usually print at 80mm, but slowed it down for these.  I really think the slicer gets confused on these for me, It seems like every slice produces a different print starting point and sequence.  I need to tweak my settings, I feel I have unnecessary travel going around things while printing as well.

      I have the newest keyboard printing now…  So far it looks okay, but can you see that some of the bridges only printed on the first layer or 2 then stop.  Not sure if this is the slicer or model.  Later in the print those bridges will be resumed but with a gap so breaks off easily.

      Keyboard Printing…

      Is anyone else having these issues printing?  Anyone share any successful makes yet?

    • #1638
      Johan von Konow
      Keymaster

      Hi

      I’m glad that the new models seem to be working better. And I think that you last photo looks great. Since some of the bridges contains wire channels that expands (diamond cross section), I’m not surprised that the slicer ignores them until they get thicker. The design is a compromise between number of wires, distance to components, guidance modelling effort and 3d printability.  I could simply remove the thin supports, but then the wires would have less guiding and there would be more bridging since the switch opening will be bigger. Since it is on the backside, I don’t think it is critical if the printout has minor defects. There are still areas that could be improved, but right now I will prioritize to release the remaining devices (arpeggiator and sequencer).

       

      Example of detail that can be improved, but hopefully won’t cause major issue.

       

      I have corrected the pad stl. Thanks for noticing.

      BTW, I have also added the possibility to upload images directly in the forum making it easier to share photos.

    • #1657
      JayWms
      Participant

      Hello.  Hope you had a good weekend!  My prints are getting better…  This little project has really helped me learn how to tune print settings…  The last photo I sent looked okay but when it was complete the bottom was mostly solid.  I guess I have more “elephant” footing than I ever thought.  I printed the first layer of the LEET Pad a dozen times tuning my Z as well as initial layer flow and initial layer line width.  I now have a custom LEET print Cura profile!  LOL.  I think I can finally use the wire channels on my latest print, it has about an hour to go…

      Did you come up with the 3DPCB concept?  Just curious if there are any design tools to help layout a board or if it is a manual design process?

      Thanks again for taking your time to assist.  I hope I can contribute in some way in the future.  My background is more in programming than electronics.

       

       

       

      • #1662
        Johan von Konow
        Keymaster

        Yes, the 3DPCB is a concept that I developed, so unfortunately there is no design tools available ;(

        But the concept is quite simple so I’m sure you can use existing PCB routing programs and sweep the resulting traces, depending on your choice of programs. I use Rhino3D but a solid modeling tool like solid works would probably be even better.

        • #1668
          JayWms
          Participant

          I took some time and read through your blog rather than ask so many questions you already documented..  :)  Very awesome concept.  I really like the evolution, I have made plenty of those PCB soldered boards and can see the light!  Now to work on my 3D design skills.

    • #1659
      JayWms
      Participant

      Results of tuning, before and after…  I might try to tweak it a bit more, got some dotted lines on the first layer, maybe a little bit too much under extruded.  I wonder how hard it would be to update the model to use 22awg wire?  I ordered a magnifying solder helper with a light to assist.  @22awg the channels could be 2-3 “lines” wide at .2mm.  If I had skills beyond tinkercad I wouldn’t ask how difficult design changes are.  :)  LOL.

      Before and After

      • #1663
        Johan von Konow
        Keymaster

        You can definitely see the difference, it looks much better after adjusting the nozzle/ build plate height. If the print is a bit squeezed you can still use it by forcing the wire or widening the guides with your nail. The guide should be quite narrow in order to keep the wire in place (especially for the longer straight tracks).

        Widening the model to compensate for a misconfigured printer is probably a bad idea, but if you want to use a wider wire you can do it by simply cut away a section of the backside. Since the wire guides are diamond shaped, each 0.1mm you take away will widen the opening 0.2mm.

        This can either be done on the printed part by using a sandpaper (preferably wet sand on a flat surface). Ensure that you don’t tilt the part by comparing the openings on each corner.

        It is quite easy to adjust the 3D model and trim off 0.1 or 0.2mm with a boolean difference operation by subtracting a solid block.

        • #1669
          JayWms
          Participant

          I don’t know why I didn’t think of just cutting off .1 or .2mm from the bottom of the model to see if the channels were a bit larger.  I found some thinner wire and ordered some magnifying glasses, I got this.

    • #1660
      JayWms
      Participant

      It looks like the buttons can only fit in one direction?  Just want to make sure I have the orientation right on all my inserts, I looked through the site but didn’t see an image.  I also looked at the wiring diagrams but I just wanted to be certain.  Worried I spent all this time getting the print right and I will mess up the build…

      • #1728
        Johan von Konow
        Keymaster

        Hi
        Another user noticed that the pad code was actually control code by mistake (now corrected)
        Ensure you are not using the wrong version.

        Sorry for any trouble!

    • #1661
      Johan von Konow
      Keymaster

      Hi

      I’m glad the print worked out at the end – well done!

      The orientation looks great on your photos. (Each switch is symmetrical and can rotate 180 degree (perpendicular to the top surface) with identical function).

       

    • #1684
      Johan von Konow
      Keymaster

      I just uploaded a 3D model suitable for calibrating your fff/fdm 3DPrinter without having to spend time and filament on a bigger LEET model:

      https://github.com/vonkonow/LEET-Synthesizer/tree/main/Accessories/3DPrinter_test


      Print the stl file with standard settings:
      • Material: PLA
      • Nozzle temperature: 210deg C
      • Nozzle opening diameter: 0.4mm
      • Layer height: 0.2mm
      • Infill: 20%
      • Support: None

      The backside should be smooth with openings for the wire paths.
      1. Measure the thickness of the upper wall with a caliper. Adjust flow and reprint until the wall thickness is 1mm.
      2. If wire paths are closed on the bottom increase first layer height (z nozzle distance).
      3. Once the wire channels looks ok, test inserting a 6x6mm tact switch to see how it fits.

      Good luck!

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